Interview > Limestone Software > Grade Converter

Aight, we've been busy the last week with competitions and reviews, this week we're taking a quick break... but we're not just sitting on our asses, nope, we were contacted by Limestone Software about a free app that they made to make a climbers life just that little bit easier.

Making apps isn't easy, look at Noodles, he makes video games for a living and it's no fun thing. Now Limestone (who are Montreal based) have put out a climbing grade converter for free, we decided to sit down and have a chat with them about it.

Route converter

1. Name and job

François Campeau full time software developer at Asset Science and co-founder of Limestone Software and Martin Morissette, full time software developer at 8D Technologies and co-founder of Limestone Software. 

2. Company name, and what do you do?

Limestone Software is an indie mobile application development company focused on crafting quality consumer software. We are currently concentrating our efforts towards the design of iPhone and iPad applications related to our fields of interest, namely climbing and photography.

Bouldering conversion

3.  So you decided to make a grade converter why?

We found that the market lacked a well designed and tough out climbing grade converter and we needed one for out last trip to Tonsai in Thailand. Furthermore, Redpoint was a great starting point to familiarize ourselves with the submission process on the Apple App Store and the perfect little app to start out our company's portfolio. 

4. What formats is the converter available upon?

Redpoint is currently only available for iOS devices (iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad) We are open to porting it to other platform if there is enough demand for it.

5.  You're not making money... was this a conscious decision?

Yes we were very conscious of that fact when we launched Redpoint and it's important for us that always remains free. Although elegantly designed ;-) we don't feel people should have to pay for such a simple app. See it as a gift to the climbing community which as been very generous to us since we started climbing a few years ago and also a way to get our company's name out there.

6.  Do you have plans for more climbing related apps?

Yes we have lot's of ideas for more climbing related apps but right now we are focusing on our second app which will be photography related

You can get the Grade Converter from the below two links, if you like it please review it!!

http://limestonesoft.com/redpoint/
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/redpoint/id413925036?mt=8

New SO ILL

Review >Teknik > No Shadow Hands / Feet & Fat Sloper

Prepare to get spanked! The name "No Shadow" is not used lightly in the case of the No Shadow hands and feet from Teknik Handholds. We picked these sets up with the Fat Sloper down at the Mountain Equipment Co-op, Noodles as he has some time on his hands has decided to run some (what we call) Blind Tests. We know full well that people will send us holds that are built superbly, but what happens when you get them from a store and not direct from the company? Well this is us helping you, of course we suggest you inspect all holds before buying them but we just walked in, picked em up, payed and walked out...

So if you break down the No Shadow sets, they're like the the Top Out Slopers from Climb It but waaaaay thinner. Noodles even decided to be nice and get the Fat Sloper so we could actually have a hold that we could hold onto. The No Shadow sets (which is two hands and two feet) and Fat Sloper are nice simple shapes, but they are each unique on their own. The Fat Sloper is a shape that you will often see from Teknik. We have other slopers from Teknik that we've had for years and the and this one is similar, but something new at the same time

Our wall is mostly made up of angles from 60 to 45 degrees and the No Shadow sets are pretty much impossible so we broke down the angle by using bolt on features. Putting the hold onto Motivation volume and the Nicros Jug or Not we ended up using the No Shadow feet as hand holds really thin "oh my god hand holds" but hand holds none the less, most people would look at these and would dismiss them as useless for hands AND feet but we like to use hand holds as footholds and as these are evil we figured we'd give it a bash, although with the volumes, the climbs and pulling on these holds became feasible  the spanking was just about to begin.

Jackie came over to play. We haven't seem him in awhile and now that he's off from school he could have a go at the sloper fest that was about to begin. We stayed off the angled walls for our first set but we kept the No Shadow holds on the volumes. It seemed easy enough when we set. Three moves, to and from the Fat Sloper with the No Shadow holds on volumes. The starting holds are No Shadow feet while the finishing hold is a No Shadow hand hold on a Motivation volume. Like a classic sloper problem it was all about balance and foot placement. Before moving onto the 45, we set one more problem on the vertical wall. Jackie had a height advantage and cruised the sequence while the rest of us spent spent some time figuring out which feet to use.

If we thought the vertical wall was giving us a lesson in humility, the problems set on the angled walls were a step above. Even Jackies length wasn't going to help him through these sequences. The first problem we set started on the 60 degree wall and it ended up being to hard for any of us to complete. So we moves onto the the roof and started a problem with two feet on a Motivation volume. We learned our lessons from the previous problems and made a sequence we could all manage. In the end we relied on brute strength and ignorance to complete the problem ;)

What you're looking at when you realistically look at the No Shadow hands are competition holds pure and simple, they are really specific, super thin and super hard holds to get onto. If we're honest (and we're proud that we are) these don't really have much of a place on a home wall! On a gym wall on a corner problem they're going to be amazing, on a slab they'll be super fun but as they're hard on a vertical wall and you can only really hold them in one direction we'd probably suggest passing on them.... that is unless you like super balanced moves or you can top out on your wall!! If you want some evil Fontainbleu style top outs then these are the ticket for you!

The No Shadow Feet.. well they're super thin and hard for feet, so they're brilliant. They're footholds that you have to be super careful with and you have to work to be able to use them, these have a place on everyone's wall, no matter where... same goes for the Fat Sloper, it's awesome fun. It's big enough and fun enough that Noodles went to a different store (same company, different location) to go and get another one. It's hard but do-able hard for everyone and we'd suggest you grab it if you can... and then try to hold it... fall off... get back on etc :D

SUGGESTED USES:

Sloper madness like these holds are best suited for vertical walls and slab climbing. With the exception of the Fat Sloper, both the No Shadow foot holds and handholds don't have much to offer when it comes to an angled wall. Lucky for us we have volumes hanging around so we could manage to set problems on angled walls. Even so, the holds make for setting hard problems and we didn`t have much success in sending most of the problems on overhanging terrain. The problems are hovering around a V7 but since Mark, the strongest climber in our group is in Horse Pens 40, its hard to gauge.

We're going to suggest shallow angles for the No Shadow Hands, any angle except a roof for the feet and the Fat Sloper... we'll go as mad as you want :)

OVERALL BUILD

• Number of holds:
• No Shadow Hands and Feet: 2 hands and 2 feet
• Fat Sloper is one hold
• Type (Bolt / Screw Ons): Bolt
• Price per hold (set price divided by number of holds) 
• NOTE: These were store brought and it's better to get the Fat Sloper in the 5 set (for more fun) and more of the No Shadow Hands in larger sets
• Color: Fat Sloper is green / No Shadow Feet are blue and the No Shadow Hands are Purple
• Bolt placement: Middle
• Sanding: Great
• Hollow backed: The Fat Sloper is
• Soft back (Rubber backed): No
• Texture: Classic Teknik i.e: superb
• Set size: Small to large
• Versatility: Little
• Pre-drilled screw holes: No
• Shaper: Seth for the Fat Sloper / Zoe for the No Shadow Hands and Feet
• Weight: Various

From the little Teknik star to the hollow back on the Fat Sloper there are little details on these holds, Teknik holds are always special to hold and we know of people that have broken a classic Teknik (resin) shape and has had a funeral service for that hold :) The sanding is great, the colors are consistent across the board and the bolt holes are well placed and drilled. Considering these are from a store it's bloody impressive.


The color of the No Shadow Hands is great it's a nice dark purple that really looks nice, the No Shadow Feet are a baby blue that's good and even and the Fat Sloper is an off green that looks quite nice. All of the holds were board mounted with bolts and T Nuts included, the packaging is nice and simple (like the shapes) and it looks pretty kick ass on a rack in a store.


If you have a wall or you set you know that Teknik means quality, but sometimes your budget is going to suffer for it a little. Sure, they will last a lifetime (if taken care of) but and lets look at one set the Tron Disks that we want on our wall... 10 holds at $65 = $6.50 per hold and they're not that big, not big at all. $6.50 per hold for something about  2 inches across stops us from buying them. And that's our point, you pay for what you get when it comes to Teknik, they know that they make quality holds so they charge you for it, sometimes it's a stiff price to pay and other times you just don't get the holds you want :(


WHAT ARE THEY MADE FROM:
Urethane

PACKING / SHIPPING:
Brought in store. All holds were on boards with bolts and T nuts included

RATING:
Noodles:
Argh, thanks to the person on the team that wrote the review... I"m in trouble :) HA! Fuck it, who cares. Teknik Handholds are...

Wait for it...

The shit.

They have been for a long time and they remain as one of my favorites, their quality is amazing and the shapes are sooo nice it's just silly. I love reviewing Teknik shapes, I love seeing them and just getting my hands on them. Shame they're bloody expensive, I'd buy more but even at wholesale prices I stop and think twice. I have an order form in my desk drawer for a bunch of stuff, hell I mailed for a price a few weeks back because I wanted to a) climb on the shapes and b) wanted to review their holds some more... it's one of those things where I look at our budget and then spend it else where because I can get more holds from different company's... the Fat Sloper, I want all of them, the Tron Disks I want them, the Pinchtite... I WANT IT NOW! The Mathematics, man I love those holds, gimme gimme gimme. Maybe I should stop being such a tight ass with money...

Oh are you guys surprised? Yeah, we pay for holds... it ain't all a free ride!


When it comes to Teknik holds can someone just send me the entire range so I can be happy?

I got my ask kicked, I believe I was the only person on the vertical wall to use the No Shadow Hands and actually get some weight onto the buggers... the Fat Sloper is fun as hell. So here's the bottom line...
No Shadow Hands: Top outs / vertical walls / blind arete slaps / Stemming routes
No Shadow Feet: Use them as hands, you'll be surprised but pretty much the same as above
Fat Sloper: Just buy this hold, in 10 years when it's classic you'll thank me

Chris:

I've always liked Teknik holds. I have the notion that these are the holds that will make you strong. I just wish they had a wider selection of holds. It seems to me that they keep re-working their classic shapes into something new and discontinuing the older shapes. Hey Teknik, give us more shapes!

As for these sets in particular, I'm split between them. We have a resin sloper (not made anymore) from Teknik and I found that it was a little smaller and easier to pinch then the Fat Sloper and the No Shadow Hands are just about grabbable, but they're still super hard to hold.

Considering these were brought in store I think the quality is amazing and they've done a great job.

PROS:

• Amazing quality
• Great colors
• Superb texture and climbing fun!

CONS:

• The No Shadow Holds aren't for the faint of heart at all
• Prices may put people off a little

warts logo

Review > DRCC > D Balls

Are you a baller? Do you like balls? Well this week it's a treat for you... the word BALLS is going to be used a lot over the course of this review. Why? Mainly because of these:

D Balls

D Ball Halves

Big D Balls

The DRCC as you're probably well versed by now have been making some of the best holds that are out on the market right now; but this time if we're honest they may have done messed up :( Opinions over here at climbingholdreview are split. There's the Noodles camp that's "they're rubbish" and then there's the Everybody else camp and that's "they're awesome!" One thing has to be stated these holds are the second set that Allison shaped and that's a thing to be very proud of, the shaping on the Big D Balls is great... well great until you look closely at the above image. Do you see what we see? No? Let's look closer:

You think you're getting four different holds, but you're not, you're actually getting the same shape four times... just they're poured shallow. Ok? That's fine you're thinking, I get four slopers of differing depths. Yup you do, but you're throwing close to $200 at these four holds alone. Sure the biggest guy is pretty damn big, but all the DRCC has done is make a mold and then pour to different depths; when you think about it they're either being genius' or they're being cheap. If you look closely at the backs of the holds you can tell that they're actually coming out of two different molds... they hollow backs are different (at least the bracing inside) So what they've done is make the master, cast it twice for the different depth pours and bobs your uncle... four new holds. It does kind of sound like we're bitching here (mainly because we are), $199.95 for four holds, that's nigh on $50 per hold and they're not technically that big, the price seems a little steep.
The Big D Balls when it comes to the three sets of holds are the ones we really liked, despite the fact that no matter how many times you start the same problem you always seem to grab them in a different way (see Noodles comments below for a video)

And then you get to the smaller holds, there are 10 more to look at. If you look closely they've done the same thing again. Both sets are just shallow pours of each other, so again you're getting two not identical sets of holds. Genius or madness, you tell us! When it comes to the smaller holds they're a major point of contention around here, normally there would only be a few people commenting but this review has generated comments from pretty well everyone that came and climbed on them. The D Ball Halves and the D Balls all climb pretty well and even though you are climbing on duplicate holds you don't really notice too much, if at all.

One thing that has to be noted is that every when we did the walk through we didn't notice that the holds were just smaller versions of each other, it was when we were playing with the holds on the wall that we noticed this we should have figured it out from the names :P

 We've had them all over the wall in most scenarios that we could think of and they're a hoot to set and play with (once you get over the same shape different depth stuff), the larger D Balls are the ones you really want the rest... well go and read the comments for what we think of those, there's not really any reading between the lines for pretty much the entire team

SUGGESTED USES:








With some of the holds you can go steep, hell, we had some of the larger more incut balls up on the roof and it made for some stiff climbing and some interesting hand matches. The D Ball Halves and D Balls are pretty well door knobs so you can wrap your hand around them and just crank, the Big D Balls end up being huge slap happy slopers or technical balance monsters depending upon where you place them.


Normally we'd suggest that home wall owners go and grab the smaller versions for their walls, this time we're going the other way as the Big D Balls are the most fun and are quite versatile for their size and shape. It is kind of a shame that you can't buy them as singles as well as a four hold set.

OVERALL BUILD

• Number of holds:
• Big D Balls:$199.95
• D Ball Halves: $44.99
• D Balls: $54.99
• Type (Bolt / Screw Ons): Bolt on
• Price per hold (set price divided by number of holds):
• Big D Balls:199.95 / 4 = $49.98 USD
• D Ball Halves: 44.99 / 6 = $7.50 per USD
• D Balls: 54.99 / 6 = $9.16 USD
• Color:
• Big D Balls: Ours are mixed, green, pink, dark green and bluw
• D Ball Halves: Yellow
• D Balls: Pink / peach
• Bolt placement: Middle
• Sanding: Bang on
• Hollow backed: Yes, some of the time
• Soft back (Rubber backed): Yes
• Texture: Great
• Set size: Small to large
• Versatility: Ok
• Pre-drilled screw holes: No
• Shaper: Allison O
• Weight: Some holds are hollow backed, others aren't

We're going to sound like a broken record on the hollow backs... some of these holds (The Big D Balls aside) are hollow backed and some aren't, the shapes are very similarly sized so there really seems to rhyme or reason to why this has been done.

As usual there is little to complain about with the DRCC and their quality, all of the holds are very well built and there aren't any real blemishes to even mention. From the DRCC logo to the rubber back as usual they've done a superb job. Well til you realize you've just brought the same set a couple of times :)

There aren't any set screw holes in the big guys, they would have been hard to add to the larger shapes but it's something that could have been added. Unless of course the set comes with the rubber back as standard (and included within the price), not that we had any problems with the holds spinning when we were using them but mainly because some gyms will want to put a screw in to be safe.

Our colors were a mixed bag with these guys, each set was a different color (not that we specified (but we did pay for these holds)) and the colors are all nice and even without any problems anywhere, same for the sanding which was perfect

WHAT ARE THEY MADE FROM:
Urethane

PACKING / SHIPPING:
Superb

RATING:
Noodles:
Hate is a harsh word, balls is seemingly a funny word. Balls is something that I'd use a lot to explain the smaller sets of holds, they just (for me) don't work very well, they seem tacked on, an after thought as this is where the fun and genius of the Big D Balls begins. Grabbing Allisons balls is a treat, even if they are just different pours of the same shape. The biggest shape of the lot is the one where you'll probably have the most fun, but I have a small problem with the slot that's on the side, it's not really needed... well it's kind of needed when it's on the roof... other than that it means people will just monkey through the move and stop using the shape for it's intended purpose... pock marked fun.

Did I say fun? I meant pain. I'm going to get down to base facts, I love the large holds, the smaller ones are rubbish and they're all painful for me to hold

Painful for me. Not for anyone else. There's a set of holds from Sequence Climbing that if their website was actually working then I'd not have to go and get my camera and have to take a picture... give me a sec:

Sequence Climbing's Moon Rock??

This hold (above) hurts my hands and fingers, it's the same as the balls, they hurt my hands... pure and simple :) There's nothing wrong with the way they're shaped or made, either for the Sequence shapes or the Balls they just hurt me... the wide pinching moves just for some reason just give me a bunch of pain. For the review I didn't really notice but when I stopped the next day my fingers hurt; no one else had that problem so it's just a me problem. As soon as I stopped playing with them then the pain went away.
I'd have had no problems if the holds were a bunch of slopers of different shapes and sizes, the dimples just simply fuck me up.

Wrapping up: half the shapes are hollow backed some aren't, what up with that? Also whilst I'm on a rant about these holds I'm not sure that having the same hold repeated through out a set multiple times is cheap or genius...

The bottom line is I like the Big D Balls, I wish I could climb on them more. The smaller versions should be binned. Sorry, hard to read and pretty hard to write but sometimes life jumps up and bites you on the ass.

Chris:
We've had our fair share of DRCC holds come through our door and the D Balls are of a different flavor. We've had holds like the duo texture slots or the setters delight, but the balls are much larger and friendlier than what I'm used to seeing from DRCC.

The set ranges in difficulty, where the smaller holds are much easier to grip. The holds have large dimples on them and are a breeze to pinch. As for the larger guys, well they're of a slightly different flavor in that they act more like a sloper and are harder to grip.

This set is pretty generic and you can find these kinds of spherical shapes from other hold suppliers but as usual, the DRCC has taken a classic design and made it better. The hold that stands out for me is the largest hold that we received, the large green guy we stuck on the roof. There is a small jug hidden in the back and it can be strategically placed to force moves. The dimply texture of these holds make all the difference. It makes for plenty of options, no matter the size of the hold but it is also its Achilles heel. The dimples are pronounced and give you plenty to hold onto and although they're really positive and easy to grip, they're small enough that you could feel some finger strain when you put a lot of weight on your fingers.


Mark:
This set of holds I found had it`s ups and it`s downs. For sure not to get me wrong, they were professionally manufactured, don`t weigh much and have prefect texture. I suppose my perception of the downs comes from the fact that all the holds are very similar. There are big slopping balls and there are fist sized balls. The big ones definitely stick out as different and can be fun but I find that they all grab the same way and feel the same. As for the small balls, they have edges and you can pinch or crimp them and it`s really challenging to have a small sloper since they`re just too positive.

The plus side of being that positive is that you can play with the small sizes on overhangs and vertical walls and don`t have to be some sort of god-child to climb them. The big slopers are definitely workable in almost all angles; can be used for knee jams sometimes, and there is one that is really shallow to the wall and you are stuck working a open handed sloper pinch off of all the little indentations. 
 
Overall a good set of holds but I think they could of passed and not made the smaller holds altogether. 

Eve:
If it wasn't for the nauseating amount of ball jokes that these holds inspired out of our jolly bunch of idiots, these slopers, no wait crimps, no wait...  well whatever they are, the D Balls sure are entertaining!  The colours are the usual DRCC unusual and the texture is comfortable.  The holds were slippery at first but the chalk and climbing fixed that.  They are amazingly fun climbing holds but they are hard to understand.  It's as if there is no actual way to hold them comfortably.  They are definitely slopers but hurt your fingers like they were crimps.  I have to mention at this point that while reviewing these holds, I have only been talking about the large D Balls since the small ones I quickly ignored after trying. You can pretty much only grab the smaller holds like a door knob - whatever wall angle they are set on and whatever your hand size - making them boring at best.  I don't think they should even be used by beginners because they don't encourage good hand and finger technique.  Conclusion, big balls are versatile, fun and challenging, little balls I can do without...  That's what she said!   ;)

Bobby:
I generally like these holds. We set a bunch of fun balance problems with the four large holds. Unfortunately not as much with the smaller ones. I guess this derives from the fact that they are all too similar to each other.  They all come from the same  mold, more or less, just poured at different depths, they just got boring fast.

As for the four large ones, they are also repeats of each other but get a way with it. These holds did offer some inspiration when setting, balance was definitely  the theme of most the problems we managed to set with them, and they almost always end up as a match, but I still liked them. Of the four, the largest was the only one that was really easy or could be used on a ceiling comfortably.

These are holds I would like to see on the wall again...    maybe just the big balls.


PROS:

• Large set sizes
• Interesting take on shaping / pouring
• The Big D Balls are fun on steep terrain

CONS:

• All of the holds are different depth of other shapes
• Prices seem steep
• Some holds are hollow backed others aren't and the shapes are very similar sizes

Review > Climb It Holds > Edges (All sizes)

Ah Climb It are always an interesting company to write reviews for, mainly because they always do something different, this week we're looking at a set of holds called the Edges:

It's rare that you see white holds, really rare but whats special about these is that they glow in the dark... they never told us they just poured them this way. How did we find this out? Well after we'd been filming the Blockys (that we reviewed here) the Edges were laid out on the floor and when we closed the door and switched off the floodlights they just started glowing.

Now normally when you see a glow in the dark hold you can tell because they have that slight green tint to the material (kind of like a glow in the dark watch face), you can normally spot a glow in the dark hold from a mile away. This time you can't, the holds are pure white, and if they're in the dark they glow.... at the time of writing this some of the holds (maybe two or three) have started to turn that tell-tale glow in the dark greenish tint, probably because the material is curing more.

Now there are of course some up sides and down sides to white holds, the upside is that you've probably not got any white holds (sure you have a bunch of chalked up holds, but they're not really white) so they show up on the wall really well, the down side is that chalk is white so you can never tell (visually) if they're chalked up and are in dire need of a good brushing. You take the rough with the smooth :)

We've noticed of late that Climb It's holds always take a little while to "bed in", this is where the holds still have a little bit of release agent on them (from when they're taken out of the molds) and are slippery; generally it's not a huge issue as all you have to do is get them nice and chalked up and then you're set to roll. With these guys, because some of them are huge, we've noticed that as the holds are pretty flat we still have areas where the shapes are a little slicker than usual... the simple solution we've found is to chalk all the holds before climbing on them... do this more than you really think you need to and then you'll be fine

A couple of things were wrong with these holds when we received them (things that should have been taken care of since)

• A couple of the hollow backs were just too thin and we were able to bend the material with our fingers
• The set screw hole placement is less than optimal, it's directly below where the bolt sits rather than off to the side

As soon as we noticed these things we got onto the phone and made sure that they were fixed in the next batches (although the holds hadn't been officially released) so that any problems could be headed off before any real problems arose.

When it comes to climbing on them, like we say in the walk through, if you're doing static moves then they're really fun to play with, the slopers even though they are massive are hard to stick on a vertical wall and when you really start being nasty with them they make some pretty tentative pressure move cruxes. As per usual we tried using the largest most incut holds on the roof and even Mark who's the tallest and by far the strongest of us couldn't make it the route work, the term sketchy still comes to mind when we think of it.

The best place for a lot of the sloping holds is going to be slabs and shallow angles, the holds are big enough that you can get up and over them and then stand on them. Of course the huge incuts are good up to 45 or maybe even 60 degrees (although at 60 you're over what is comfortable), they do make for some powerful climbs that despite the sharp(ish) edges work really well.


SUGGESTED USES:








We don't suggest putting these holds on anything much over 45 degrees, sure some of the incut holds could go this steep (and they do perform well at this angle) but at that point they're just a flat edge, still fun to climb on but a little boring. Grab these holds, use them as underclings and go mad trying to stick some of the slopes on a vertical wall... it's going to be a very balanced affair that's for sure.
One of the great things about the larger, super matchable, shapes is that you can play with some monster heel hooks, or just try to track your feet on the entire route... we tried it a bunch of times and sometimes it was hard, others it was just plain crazy... but it sure was fun watching Chris try it (see the video for that hand / foot match)

If you gym has a large slab grab the larger sloped sets and then use them for mantles, your clientele will thank you once they come back from a slab route outside!

OVERALL BUILD

• Number of holds: 48 (split between slopes / incut and flat)
• Type (Bolt / Screw Ons): Bolt
• Price per hold (set price divided by number of holds): TBD
• Color: White (glow in the dark) & two orange holds
• Bolt placement: Center
• Sanding: Good
• Hollow backed: Yes
• Soft back (Rubber backed): No
• Texture: Grippy, but they will be slick to start with
• Set size: Small to 2XL+
• Versatility: Ok
• Pre-drilled screw holes: Yes
• Shaper: Louie Anderson
• Weight: Various

We've talked about the obvious flaws in the holds, and to be honest it wasn't something that we expected from Climb It. We have a good working relationship with them an were surprised that something with problems of these nature turned up on our door... you have to remember that these holds turned up at the same time as the Blockys (which we reviewed a while back)

So apart from the slightly sharp edges, the screw holes in a weird place and some thin hollow backs... what else is there to look at?
As always the holds have nice inset washers and logo, the sanding is as smooth as you could possibly want on a hold. The texture is grippy once it beds in and there is a huge range of sizes to pick from.

Glow in the dark isn't something we've seen before, especially from holds that look like they're pure white. Since getting them and having them on the wall (and out for demos at a few places) they have begun to yellow in a few cases and they do look like they're glow in the dark. White holds obviously show up shoe rubber quite a lot and they do need to be cleaned to make them really stand out, thankfully this is easy as there aren't any huge dimples to deal with on the climbing surfaces

Considering their size the larger holds are pretty damn light, so shipping these monsters is more a question of size rather than weight.

NOTE: all the issues we found with the holds have been rectified before their official release should be before the end of March 2011


WHAT ARE THEY MADE FROM:
Urethane

PACKING / SHIPPING:
Very good

RATING:
Noodles:
Glow in the dark, you can't help but give someone 10/10 for that little gem! It was a nice surprise to see that when the lights went out :)

The big question for me is whether Climb It dropped the ball on this one, with a couple of bad hollow backs, iffy set screw placements and sharp edges. Of course logic dictates that you should get a good slap on the behind and a C- on their report card, but where (and let's be honest here) they fucked up they made up for in other ways. How? Let me tell you!
As soon as we noticed the hollow back issue we phoned them, and it was on a weekend and it was late by the time we'd done this. Zach being the ever reasonable (and ZZ Top look-a-like contest entry) listened to our concerns and addressed  them one by one. The hollow backs were re-done and the screw placements should have been moved.

That, is customer service and that is also someone that listens to the bad that we have to say and then gets the job done.

I'd have really preferred these holds to have softer edges, even though the edges on these aren't sharp sharp you do have to be a little careful with crazy all points off dynos to them, not super crazy careful... but just a little. I like the way that the holds are split between angles (sloper / flat and incut) it means you can get exactly what you want when you order and you know full well that when Climb It say incut they mean INCUT... some of these holds are almost big enough that you could (maybe) use them as a small seat (not that you'd really want to)
There is a little something for everyone in this set of holds, they're simple and they set out to do a very simple job. We paired them with another Climb It set of holds (the Sliders) that we've had for donkeys years and what you're looking at (if you're familiar with the Sliders at all) is pretty well an expanded range of these holds.

Slab-monkeys: look at the large slopes for all the mantling fun you're ever going to want
Overhang dwellers: get the incut / flat versions there is no way you'll hang the slopes on anything too steep

Overall I'm a little meh on these holds, there was a lack of finesse to them that left them a little lacking for my tastes. Considering they are simple simple shapes there could have been slightly smoother radii to the holds (which is strange as some of the slopes are nice and round) and it would have made a huge difference. These aren't the best work I've seen from Climb It... those are yet to come and they're called the Tufas!

Chris:
I love getting a box of holds in from Climb It. They usually send us a better part of their range so we can get a feel of all the different size holds and it was no different for this set. The range has everything from great big incuts to nasty sloping death. I like the fact that Climb It took a simple run of the mill shape and created something unique in each hold. There are a lot of these half moon shapes out there: from DRCC Force edges to the old Voodoo holds they have at the gym. Even Climb It has something similar in the Sliders. When it comes to shapes, these guys are awesome.

What I was a little surprised on was some of the details that were overlooked in the manufacturing process. I can understand that they are trying to get the shapes to be as light as possible, and they have done a great job on the hollow back that they didn't leave enough material on the edge of the hold. The other was the location of the screw holes. Some were located directly under the bolt hole and the hold would still torque under load. They still prevented the hold from spinning but I feel that the screw hole should be located in a place where it would have a mechanical advantage. Lastly, and for me the biggest issue, the screw holes are not completely drilled out. It's an added step in the process that is the difference between a good shape and a great hold. And besides, why should we spend time pre-drilling screw holes when we could be climbing?


PROS:

• Glow in the dark yo!
• Hold range is split three ways, slopes, incut and flat

CONS:

• Hollow backs needed looking at, they were too thin
• Screw holes aren't in the optimum places

Review > So Ill / Crytochild > Iron Palm Hangboard

Right, it looks like Spring is kind of coming, it's thinking about it... it really is (fingers crossed) and it's time to get strong. We use hang boards year round as part of our training regieme, this time we're looking at the Iron Palm board from So Ill and Cryptochild. This is the third board (actually fourth board) that we've reviewed, you can read part one here and part two here


Iron Palm Hangboard
We've covered three boards already, the Metolius Simulator 3D / Project boards and the Delire Redpoint station with the Metolius Simulator 3D coming out slightly in front compared to the Delire, this time Jason Kehls offering, the Iron Palm and from the get go you've got at admit it does look pretty unique. 

If you put this guy up against the Delire and the Metolius 3D it is by a small ammount the biggest board of the three, it's also the most striking and unlike most other boards there don't seem to be pockets and edges everywhere. So it's a clean looking board, with what look like a dolly split in half and then stretched apart to make the features.... it sure is strange

• 27 in x 11.5 in x 4 in
• Price: $99 (USD)
• Varied grip positions
• Included mounting hardware

If you're looking for a board then here's a handy list of what's out there (It's not a full list):

• Revolution's Grillito: here
• Entre Prise's Hangtime: here
• Asana's Talon: here
• Uprisings Revolution Board: here
• Rise Hold's Fingerboard: here
• Holdz Fingerboards: here
• Osm'ose boards: here
• Moon Climbing's Fingerboard: here
• Nicros Hangboards: here
• Bendcrete's Classic: here
• Metolius Boards: here
• DRCC's 5.12 and V3 boards: here

INSTALLATION
In our case we have lots of space and as the board came attached to a board all we did was mount our new board onto our existing wall; actually what we really did was extend the wall because we wanted more than one board up at a time :P Adding the extra part of the wall took a few hours, but it only took about 5 minutes to get the board on the wall and for us to start training... all we had to do is put in 7 screws through the pre-drilled holes in the mounting board.  It's not so heavy, and as only Noodles was around when the board went up he clamped the board and made sure it was level, other than that set up was nice and simple.

TRAINING
There wasn't any training material with the board, so we suggest you modify the Metolius regime from: here You can also read some good training tips from Eric Horsts training books or his page: here


Again we based our routine on Metolius' 10 minute plans and tailored it to what we wanted, we did go into specifics of three fingers hangs etc later on once we'd used the board for a while to see what it was like to train pockets on a board with no pockets... but the video isn't of that routine, it's of our super simple/easy routine that we like to use after a session.


RATING:
Noodles and Training
Sometimes you just luck out.... or not in my case... but first the pre-amble. As I've said in previous reviews... hangboards if you want to get stronger kind of become a necessary evil. You can really work on your contact strength and if you're limited on space / can't get to a wall etc then these are the simplest solutions for home training. As per usual I'm going to point out that none of us here at CHR are trained in training for climbing, all of our knowledge has come from trial and error (what works for us) and years of climbing....

I said I lucked out didn't I?

Not really :( This review has been a long time coming, we've used the board on and off for months and months. I kind of slacked on my hangboard workouts over Xmas and when I got my new tattoo, which meant no climbing, I hit the boards again for my fix! Now when I want to work my weakness I kind of cheat, as we get to look at different boards I simply switch boards and as I generally write the drafts of the 10 minute sequences we use (with some tweaks after a few sessions) I get to do what I like and therefore work what I like :D

The Iron Palm is a weird one for me, I'll start with the negatives: I don't like the texture as I think it's too grippy and a little spiky in places and I sure as hell hate the dragons on the top rail (I find that my thumb rests on them sometimes), that's it for the bad with the board... well kind of. The top rail flexes when you hang on it with your hands close together and it could use another screw hole... that's it... oh and it's massive... that's really it.

What Jason Kehl has done with this board is nothing short of art. I love the way it looks like Dunnys from Kid Robot on the sides and maaaan I love hanging off of those huge ol' slopers. Way back I asked Jason in an interview we did with him why he didn't use pockets and his reply was short and sweet; "if you want to train three fingers hang off of three fingers"... a good point from someone that isn't particularly known for his words :)

It's a well formed and well rounded board with something the Metolius boards don't have but the Delire board does, yup PINCHES! But these aren't just any ol pinches, no sir these guys are scooped (thicker) towards the bottom which allows you to really hang and pull up on them... hell Bobby hung off of them for a minute, they're that big and that comfortable; in fact the board itself is big and all of the radii of the rungs are ergonomic and friendly.

Hangboards are a personal thing, I've said in the past I like the Metolius Simulator 3D... because it's curved, the texture is right for me. I can train on it a lot because of the curve and the angle (It leans slightly forward) without my elbows paining me the next day... it's by far my favorite board... well it was. I'm now (as of this review and after getting up close and very personal with the Iron Palm) completely split. What the 3D lacks the Iron Palm has, I'm going to have to make a list here I think:

• I prefer the pinches (the 3D doesn't have any) on the IP
• I also prefer the top rail jug on the IP to the Metolius' monsters that they have... 
• I like the edges on the 3D more than the IP's mainly because the Metolius has more choice and I can on the fly change my work out as needed... 
• but the slopers argh, the slopers, both boards have superb slopers... the 3D has two options (Hell the Project and the 3D have two options) but the IP has those big round balls, and the sloping rails... two of them.

I guess what I'm saying is I like the Iron Palm as much as I like the Metolius Simulator 3D, I'm lucky as I can have both boards set up next to each other and I can move between them to workout the way I want to. If I'd have to make a decision on what I'd have over my doorway the answer is pure and simple, which one of them will fit because they're both pretty big; that's how! There are so many +/-'s with both the boards I couldn't tell you, and that my friends is a first

Chris and Training

I've noticed something about hangboards lately. Like holds, some hangboards are geared towards the climbing nut, while others, like the Iron Palm, are geared towards a beginner.

Like Noodles pointed out, hangboards are a personal thing, and although the Iron Palm may serve a purpose for some, I find that you can best invest your money somewhere else. I'll be honest with you and say that I was impressed by the Iron Palm and especially with the pinches (up to then I had only ever trained on the Metolius boards which are pinch free) but soon realized that this is nothing but a glorified chin up bar. I've been climbing for years and I've never found any use for over developed biceps that may impress a girl at the bar but does very little for improving your climbing ability.

I'm no expert, but I feel that the best way to improve is to climb more and that specific climbing training is used once one has attained a certain level of climbing (5.12/V6). Its like hitting the weights before learning how to skate. When it comes to the Iron Palm, if you can't hang on the board, then no amount of time spent training will improve your ability to climb. Time to hit the wall and reassess your weakness. Now this is just a personal view on training, and there is nothing to say that hangboard training (if properly executed) improves you climbing skills, I just haven't found the use of specific training until lately.

I wish I had more good things to say about the Iron Palm. I really like the pinches, but one good thing can't remove the fact that this HANGboard (emphasis on the HANG) serves better at showing of your biceps at a chin up contest than a climbing training device.
 


Mark and Training
Ahh, Hangboards..  I`d just like to empathize the fact that it is a hangboard.  So few people use these killer finger workouts properly and start wasting time doing chin ups on them.

I have to give it to the Iron Palm, it catches the eye and you just want to stick on to those two big slopers.  The problem for me is I like seeing how low I can grab them and still hold on yet I always go too low and fall off.

This board is pretty neat style wise and has some good features mixed in with some things that some would like less.  First off, I love the slopers, you can finally work your sloper strength on a board and just play with the angles that you try to stick on to it.  I also really like how you can work your compression strength by squeezing in on the sides of those slopers, a rare thing to find on hangboards.  The pinches hanging just under those slopers are also wicked sticky, almost to the point where I`d say they`re too easy.  I also like the variability in hand positions offered on the crimp rails, left right, center, anywhere; there are no constraining pockets to force you to do any hang in one specific position.

On the downsides for those of us who are picky, the board feels a bit coarse and isn`t overly pleasant on my hands, I`d compare that to brand new holds.  I also find the crimp rails to be problematic to hold onto with less than all your fingers, I guess you  could say it`s awkward.  The top does seem to have some flex in it when fully weighted and the dragons are artistic but get in the way of my thumbs. 

Keep in mind I like my workout tools simple and except for the fact theres a couple of dragons on it this is a nice simple board.  Overall I can`t complain too much, just make sure it fits over you door frame before you go out and get one.

OVERALL BUILD
If you're broad shouldered then you're in for a treat as this is the widest board out there right now, so all you big wide guys rejoice!! Below is the overall features on the board:

The texture for us is too much and the dragons that do add some flair to the board can get in the way, the other thing to note is the top rail does seem to have some flex in it as well, nothing that a screw cannot fix, but we're not sure how wise it would be to put one in here, we'd like to see So Ill add an extra hole here for the consumers.







If you want slopers, hell if you love slopers then this is the board for you, same for the pinches which are the best we've come across so far. The board is very well made other than that, there aren't any flaws in the build quality that we're noticed. It's actually worthy to note that if this board is too wide for your door frame then So Ill and Cryptochild do have four (yes four) other boards that you can look at: here 

WHAT ARE THEY MADE FROM:
Urethane

PACKING / SHIPPING:
Superb

OVERALL 
The board is well situated price wise, it's the biggest board we've got so a one person mounting job is out of the question if you want to make sure you're setting it up level. The major downside to the board is the texture that is a little bit too aggressive for our tastes; it's an interesting plus and minus, some people don't mind the texture as they feel that it allows them to be able to hang on for longer and the other people just like their skin and when they've finished a long session on the wall and then they hit the board sometimes they complain.


It's a well designed board, some people might say that the beauty of the board is it's simplicity, but you do need to have some self control when training and you have to make sure that you train your finger sets on the rails. For some people having pockets on a board makes their life a little easier, for others well they have self discipline :P 

So... when it comes to working your contact strength you need a simple tool, the Ironpalm is that tool, it's a sleek efficient design that will fit in with your Feng shui (if that's your kind of thing) and will look great above a door frame. How useful it is depends upon what you want to get out of it and what you use it for. We've noticed that using it has helped (some of us) with out sloper and pinch strength, but we do use it in a very simple way, and that is, we use it to work our weakness' when we can't get to the gym to get onto a rope.


PROS:

• Great slopers
• Simple design

CONS:

• You'll need some discipline to train finger sets
• Texture might be a little too much for some people
• Might be a little too wide for some doorways

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Review > Motavation Volumes > Pele & James

This probably isn't going to be a typical review, well at least in the normal sense of a review, it's going to be a little retrospective... a little bit different. This week we're looking at some of Motavation Volumes shapes... generation three to be exact, they're called the Pele and the James:

James from Motavation Volumes

Pele from Motavation Volumes

Before we talk about these volumes lets take you back, to a not so distance past::

ROUND ONE:
Some years ago a company called Motavation Volumes popped up and sent us some little volumes made of wood, you can read the original review (here) but here's a recap on what they were like...

Two Willys, Medium and Small from Motavation Volumes

They were a little rough and ready, there were screw heads everywhere, the sanding on the backs was slightly off and basically the idea was great but there needed to be some clean up done on the volumes. We'd have given them a 5/10 if we still ran our old scoring system

ROUND TWO:
Wait some time and then another package arrives, that review in full is (here). This time there's a Waylon and two Billys arrived, one of the Billys was massive:

Waylon from Motavation Volumes

Billy from Motavation Volumes

HUGE Billy from Motavation Volumes

They'd done some work with these guys, the screw heads couldn't be seen, they were bright colors and they worked really well. We've had these guys for a long long long time and they're still going strong... the comments we made about the fact that any hold put on the volumes stuck to the texture they were using and was de-laminating the wood when you try to take them off still holds true and we've managed to destroy one of the screw in T-nuts... but there was massive improvements, they added a branded logo (They are from down South afterall), they're colored and they're made out of good quality plywood what more could you ask for??

Well if we remember correctly we mentioned that they should add set screw holes as the volumes are pretty heavy and hanging them off of a single bolt wasn't the best. Sure, sure, anyone can chuck a screw into these guys, they are wood after all, but a nice washered set screw hole would have taken these guys into a different realm of volumes.... in-fact Jeremy has had a number of drunk informative conversations with the boys at Motavation about improvements that we've thought of whilst moving and playing on these volumes

And this brings us to today... well, actually thats not quite true :) They did send us some more small Willys that had a new texture on them to see what we thought, THAT actually brings us upto date... now lets get this shindig rolling WOO!

So the James and the Pele, let's face it, they're pretty big volumes!

They're made of really good quality plywood and they now have a new texture that doesn't keep your holds stuck to it when you un-bolt them, so everythings looking pretty good so far! But there are a couple of downsides to these guys, they're minor things that you have to keep in mind:

1. They are pretty heavy, so you might need more than one person to put them up
2. You won't have bolts that are long enough so you will need to make some
3. The texture is sprayed on after the bolt holes are drilled, so they holes are tight to begin with
4. THERE STILL AREN'T ANY SET SCREW HOLES

Now these are minor problems considering what they bring to a blank wall, we bolt them to each other, we stick holds on them and we screw holds to them... as they're made from thick plywood it is actually pretty tough putting the screw ons onto them... you really need to press down on the drill to get any movement on the screws :)

Normally we'd show you a video of us climbing on them... but there's really not much point because you can pretty well see a volume in most of our videos... the only other volumes we have is a Nicros Jur-or-Not and their Infinity Board base everything else is a Motavation Volume... let's let Jeremy talk you through the volumes:


So there you have it, pretty short and sweet this week.... the volumes are huge and strong, they have a new texture... viva la generation three, we're looking forward to what they're going to come up with next... maybe a center column for the bolts would be a nice addition. Oh AND SCREW HOLES 


SUGGESTED USES:








Put them wherever you want, adding volumes to a wall gives a blank wall a welcome change, we move them around a bunch whenever we set. A couple of them a permanently screwed in place on our flat walls to make transitions easier. Get these guys and do whatever you want with them because they're strong as hell and they make a plain wall much more interesting... did you ever see the box we built? We're not going to be doing that again, if you read our older reviews you can see some of the smaller volumes we've tested: here & here


OVERALL BUILD

• Number of holds: 2
• Type (Bolt / Screw Ons): Bolt ons
  
• Price per hold (set price divided by number of holds): James is $140 upwards / Pele is $250 upwards
• Color: Pele is yellow / James is Blue
• Bolt placement: Center
• Sanding: Great
• Hollow backed: Yes
  
• Soft back (Rubber backed): No
  
• Texture: Good
• Set size: Massive
• Versatility: They are bolt on volumes
• Pre-drilled screw holes: NO!
• Shaper: Jared Stains
• Weight: Heavy

 Motavation Volumes have come along way, the shapes are massive and super strong.. of course there are some problems which we'll repeat here: They are pretty heavy, so you might need more than one person to put them up, you won't have bolts that are long enough so you will need to make some, the texture is sprayed on after the bolt holes are drilled, so they holes are tight to begin with and of course THERE STILL AREN'T ANY SET SCREW HOLES.

One major problem is having to make your own bolts, because with a cap head what happens is because of the T nut placement you basically can only use a hollow backed hold as the cap protrudes out of the volume...  you can't use a normal hold. We're looking into different ways of using other bolts to get around this problem... right now we're thinking of threading some of the other bolts we have that are way too long and are un-threaded.

The texture is good enough that on some of the sharp angles you can get a grip, but it's not so good that you're totally bombproof on the move you're pulling. Construction is bombproof, these volumes are probably over constructed but that's not a bad thing unless you want light weight volumes, all of the shapes had a rough travel from Texas to here and they were totally fine on the pallet that they came in on.

One thing that can be said is that there could obviously have more t nuts on all of the climbing surfaces, but it's not hard to drill these yourself wherever you'd like them, you can always ask for more t nuts there will probably be a small cost for this service. Color-wise these things pop, the yellow is super bright, the blue is pretty standard, we've heard that there might be some neon colored volumes coming in the near future :P

WHAT ARE THEY MADE FROM:
Plywood, super thick stuff

PACKING / SHIPPING:
Great

RATING:
Noodles:
Importing a pallet of volumes for a competition is always going to be an endeavor... but it was done for the Allez Up December Fest. Not long after they arrived we realized we needed to sort out some bolts for these monsters... once done up they went and then out came the drill. These holds really really really need set screw holes and Motavation know this, I've spoken to them about it but they've not got around to doing anything about it as of yet.... but they will I'm pretty sure of that fact.

Mark complains about me moving volumes about the place and he says we have too many, admittedly I did put every Motavation volume we have on the roof at one point because I was bored, but he never seems to complain about the variety it add to the wall, strange that :) We have volumes on top of volumes and sometimes we've have volumes on volumes on top of another volume, we have some fun with them that's for sure... it's testament to say that even the generation one volumes we have are still going strong and it's only the generation two volumes that de-laminate when the holds are stuck to them that are the only real building / design defects we've ever had.

Some people will complain about price, but when you look at them realistically (time and materials etc) then they're cheap and well worth it, some of their smaller volumes are way less that $100 btw, it comes down to what you want and whether you can be arsed to build it... me, I don't have time so I go Motavation volumes especially after the box we built that weighed in at about 2 tonnes and the hassle we had putting it up and down.

Base level, would I buy them (again)? Yes, because I'm lazy and I think that the build quality on these volumes is amazing... plus I love the fact that they add variety to our wall... go check them out.

Chris:
I'm really impressed with how Motivation Volumes has risen through the climbing hold scene. We were the first to sample their product and every generation has something new to offer. So its a pain to find bolts long enough for the larger shapes and they are heavy and difficult to get onto the wall without an extra set of hands but god damn, they're really cool to have around. Now I would gather that unless you have a big fat wallet and can afford custom made boulder walls, your personal home wall built around your garage frame probably has a lot of flat uninteresting angles. Stick a Motivation volume on it and you've got something fresh. I liked the simplicity of the small pyramid shapes but these new ones are mind blowing. I wish only that they would have more bolt holes. There seems to be lacking a lot of bolt placements. The faces that do have t-nuts in them only have one and there are other faces that are missing bolt holes all together. What this does is limit where you can place the hold. It becomes very repetitive and you can easily anticipate where the hold is.

Of course, it all comes down to would I buy it or not. The answer would be yes. Motivation are making geometric volumes that will be a great addition for a home wall or gym. The lack of bolt holes isn't a big issue and you can always pick up a drill and add some more t-nuts or better yet, add some screw on holds.


PROS:

• Super strong they're very well built
• Adds variety to flat panels of your wall

CONS:

• Heavy, you need two people to put them up
• Bolt holes are tight to start with
• Price for some people